r/Frieren • u/ciutomorrow • Feb 17 '24
She's going to spam Zoltraak whenever Denken's party is trying to heal isn't she? Video Edit
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u/rxdukexr Feb 17 '24
I bet someone is going to die in this fight. I’m an anime only though so I could be wrong.
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u/entitaneo70_pacifist fern Feb 17 '24
Also anime only, but i can say, someone is definetly gonna die. if not all of them
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u/Alternative_Worth806 Feb 17 '24
Let's hope they are smart enough to run
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u/ciutomorrow Feb 17 '24
Yeah I'm anime-only too, I don't think even Sense, IF she was forced (or decided too since she knows that Frieren is leagues above this eras mages from seeing her destroying Serie's barrier) to fight, will come out the boss fight unscathed.
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u/thebohster Feb 18 '24
Speaking of Sense, it made me wonder if the dungeon copies her as well since she's inside. It could also explain nobody passing previous years.
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u/adamttaylor Feb 17 '24
Given that Frieren trying to 100% this dungeon, I think that it is very likely that she may end up helping them. I am an anime only watcher. I would like to see Fern be able to 1v1 this boss.
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u/Hijack5996 Feb 18 '24
Just imagine Frieren's party making their way to the final boss room after exploring every nook and cranny of the dungeon and asking "wait, where did everybody go?" x_x
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u/Prestigious-Earth-46 Feb 18 '24
Don’t wanna spoil cuz i’ve read the manga but Fern is not soloing this. This clone is just as strong as the real Frieren and fights the same way.
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u/OctoTank Feb 17 '24
Anime only here, from the next episode title one would assume that the *thing* (idk what to call it) is the same identical to Frieren. Would Frieren herself be able to recognise her own mana signature and go find *it*? I'm assuming Sense wouldn't help the group since it's an exam.
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u/SpeziSchlauch Feb 17 '24
As a manga reader i know my position and therefore i will not answer this question.
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u/JD4Destruction Feb 18 '24
I remember the manga readers were wrong about their predictions at that time but I forgot exactly how this fight ends.
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u/harshithpurohith3018 Feb 17 '24
Ah i want to spoil you so bad ,but its bad to let my intrusive thoughts win
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u/Deep_BrownEyes Feb 17 '24
No one knows her true mana levels. they're all dead since they'll underestimate her no matter what.
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u/ChupacabraRVA Feb 18 '24
Earth dude and fast girl are in the perfect slot of “not essential to the plot but we know enough about them for their death to hurt”. I get the vibe it’s gonna be one of them.
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u/nhansieu1 himmel Feb 18 '24
as long as the bottle is still there, I doubt anyone die. Tho does Frieren Clone expect those bottles
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u/International_Ad4526 Feb 18 '24
if you think someone dies in this show you are watching the wrong show (not anime only)
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u/KWyiz Feb 17 '24
These guys are going to learn what the demons learned when they decided to f*** around Frieren. I feel sorry for their innocent souls.
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u/KrocKiller Feb 17 '24
Would be funny if it was a complete pushover. Like Frieren even managed to fool the dungeon with her suppressed mana.
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u/Brickless Feb 17 '24
ooooh it might be true that the clone only has as much mana as frieren seems to have while suppressing!
however frieren only suppresses mana down to look like a very, very experienced mage. (as seen before the first test starts)
so the clone should still have a large amount of mana compared to normal mages but maybe not more than Denkens party as a whole.
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u/Mirrormn Feb 17 '24
And remember, mana is not exactly a measure of how "strong" you are when attacking, or how well or fiercely you can fight. It's more a measure of stamina.
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Feb 17 '24
Which is a big thing in a fight lmao.
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u/Mirrormn Feb 17 '24
Yes, for sure, just saying a mana-restricted Frieren would still be no cakewalk.
But the funny thing is, if you treated her as if she had her restricted level of mana, and then you were wrong and it turned out she had more... that's literally the exact combat advantage that she works so hard to achieve. That's why she restricts her mana in the first place.
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u/alexathegibrakiller Feb 18 '24
It's not just the combate advantage of not knowing frieren's exact stamina. it's fooling the demons about the expectation of power. The amount of mana a mage has depends on the amount of time spent training, and if you pour in a shit ton of time training, both your stamina and skill should improve, not just the stamina. So, having a large amount of mana also means that the mage probably knows how to utilize it well, which is the scarier part.
As we saw in the past episodes, battles between human mages often come down to a game of rock paper scizzors. For instance úbel has no chance of victory against wirbel, but the feather guy will absolutely wreck wirbel's shit, even though ùbel might be technically stronger than the feather guy. I think this is mainly because of how restrictive human's life spans are, some mages like fern and denken choose to focus on more available and "generic" combat spells like defense magic and attacking spells, and focus on how to most effectively use them and think on the fly on how to beat thier opponent's quirky magic. Other mages seem to focus on developing really strong and really clever magic, like wirbel or land. Strong "combat" mages like fern and denken might be able to beat the latter, if they figure out a way to counter the magic with thier arsenal, or, these "quirky" mages can be beaten in a game of rock paper scissors by a "quirky" mage like themselves.
A person like frieren, however, who has a long lifespan and can choose to focus on both quirky magic and her general battle prowess, has the option to either beat you in the game of rock paper scissors, or just outfight you with "generic" magic. I feel like that's where the mana trickery, and in a way, her quirky brand of spell comes in. She can make her opponent believe that she is less experienced than she is, which might lead them to use their "quirky" magic in a lax way. This is especially important while fighting demons, as so far, we see them focusing on perfecting one specific but very powerful spell for their entire lifetimes.
Let's say, for example, wirbel was a 700 year old demon who has an indomitable binding spell with way fewer restrictions. The moment frieren engages him, she is screwed. But if the demon percieves frieren as less of a threat, and does not use his OP magic to win instantly and spoil the fun, frieren can quickly use her most deadly spells before the demon even has a chance to realize what happened, making her win the fight.
I will agree, now that her name is notorious, some demons and all humans will take her seriously and throw everything they have at her, but I think as we see with aura fight, even despite her herculean accomplishment of defeating the demon king, its still incomprehensible for a demon to consider frieren strong, unless they either figure out that she is supressing her mana, or they know it beforehand from somewhere. The reason is, thats how demons judge their opponents' strength, through mana, and due to their nature, it is wild for them to think that someone can be suppressing their mana that well, due to how their society is structured. So her mana suppression thing will probably still work on like 99% of the demons even despite the fact that she mercced the demon king.
This turned into a whole ass essay lmao, i just really love talking about magic in frieren. it's so freaking fun
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u/Fedorchik Feb 18 '24
Not all human magic is quirky, though,
As Richter pointed in his fight vs Lawine and Kanne, there is new school of thought in human magic that is based on a biggest flaw in standard defensive magic - it eats a lot of mana and is bad against physical effects, so it eats even more mana when faced with physical attacks.
So, Richter uses the new method - massed physical attacks that overwhelm opponents protection with a very powerful physical finisher that breaks weakened defenses.
And if we follow closely, both Lawine and Kanne are probably from a school that is transitional from quirky magic to overwhelming strike magic - they are both kinda quirky, but in favorable situation can have a major advantage in sheer volume of their attacks.
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u/misteryk Feb 17 '24
Didn't she had less mana than Haiter while supressing?
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u/Brickless Feb 17 '24
she could suppress to nothing but while getting the first test instructions she suppressed to only a very strong mage, I think
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u/kwkqoq Feb 17 '24
base supression is 1/10th
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u/Zikiri Feb 18 '24
1/10 base suppression was when flamme was teaching her. The denominator is definitely higher now
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u/SmolDadi Feb 18 '24
You know what would be funnier? A second phase with no more restraining of mana.
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u/DilapidatedHam Feb 18 '24
I love that theory! Would be a great way to make the squad’s win more realistic
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u/Killermondoduderawks Feb 17 '24 edited Feb 19 '24
2 faves dialog trees from this episode
Richter: Can we handle this one Denken?
Denken: If this wasn’t a test I’d have broken my bottle a long time ago
Sense: I will accompany your group
Sense upon witnessing Frieren get chomped by a mimic when she knew that it was 99% a mimic: I may have picked the wrong group
Sense seeing how gleefully Frieren is exploring the dungeon and how happy that make Fern: I picked the right group
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u/uForgot_urFloaties Feb 18 '24
Denken goes so hard 💪🏼💪🏼💪🏼
The fist fight in the first test and now this? Fav character apart from main cast.
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u/Killermondoduderawks Feb 19 '24
I see a lot more similarities between Denken and Frieren than I do differences
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u/MonkaSDudes Feb 17 '24
i honestly think its weird that richter is so unsure about it. he was very convinced that denken could beat frieren on his own and now theyre four against one.
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u/Lucid108 Feb 17 '24
Well, he did see Frieren break Series' unbreakable barrier, just so her ally could gain access to rainwater. After that, I'd be uneasy about fighting her, too.
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u/ciutomorrow Feb 17 '24
Yeah agreed. Imagine being in Richter shoes, he expected Frieren to lose, only to find that Frieren has spare mana to break the barrier created by "closest to a GODDESS on mortal realm" just to supply water for her comrade instead of supplying water thru conventional water generating spell or simply joining the fight (which Richter expected by trying to kill her comrade before Frieren arrives)
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u/Owldev113 Feb 18 '24
He also got to see Denken do literally nothing to her. At that point he had no gauge for how strong she was, he just knew Denken to be an absurdly strong mage. Then Frieren walked through him (while simultaneously analysing the barrier (peak foreshadowing)) and made it look effortless.
Then directly after she fucking obliterates the barrier erected by basically the god of mages.
After seeing that you’d have to assume that you’d get fucking walked through.
Noting that Frieren literally never left an opening for Denken to attack and simultaneously attacked him while he was surrounding her with shit. Richter recognises that she’s basically unbeatable by this point
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u/MonkaSDudes Feb 17 '24
True. I kinda forgot that this happened before he learned both that and that she beat denken quite fast. It makes sense now I just forgor 💀
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u/Mirrormn Feb 17 '24
When they first confronted Frieren in the first round, only Denken knew her by reputation, and although that is a strong reputation, it seems like Denken thought she was around the same level as a 1st-class mage - one with a particularly heroic tale, but not super-human. Someone he could realistically 1v1.
After that point, Frieren slammed his ass into the ground, both figuratively and literally, while at the same time deciphering and dispelling the barrier erected by Serie, the strongest known mage in existence, just so she could hand a nice win to a random 3rd-class mage kid that she happened to get randomly partied with. He got absolutely toyed with. That'll change your perspective on her power level pretty quickly.
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u/amimai002 Feb 17 '24
Real frieren is a goof, you can win fight by bribing with obscure magic junk.
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u/Gloomy_Presence_6590 Feb 17 '24
Also remember frieren just poking at denken's butt with her staff after she had smashed him.
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u/prodigiouspandaman Feb 17 '24
What makes even less sense is that he doesn’t think that someone who could beat the demon lord could be beaten by denken which I mean I think is the point to show how over time humans forget the heroes that come and pass but I feel like they should at least know not to fuck with her as she’s also an elf like Serie
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u/Express-Day5234 Feb 18 '24
I mean, it’s not like she beat the demon lord by herself. Nobody knows how old Frieren is or how long she has trained for. And she gives off a fake mana level. So she seems like a strong mage who helped the Hero but isn’t necessarily unbeatable.
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u/prodigiouspandaman Feb 18 '24
Yeah I mean still though she also helped out in the development of zoltraak into the human magic system which I feel should definitely show she’s extremely adept with magic being able to translate the magic like that
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u/Skywagon5 Feb 18 '24
I mean, that belief encountered a real hard reality check when they actually fought.
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u/Schrodinger_cube Feb 17 '24
i have seen this pay out before in a gif it goes something like "im'a frieren~ mah LAZER!!! BWAAAA!! ~.
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u/ValeX_fan frieren Feb 17 '24
Oh fuck I'm excited for this even after seeing this in the manga I can assure we have some big deal above us
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u/the-dude-version-576 Feb 17 '24
Yeah, this segment is by far what has me the most exited out of what will probably be in the season.
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u/chiku00 Feb 17 '24
Contrary to what you guys are saying, I will bet that this version of Frieren is only modeled after Denken's memories, and not the real Frieren.
Remember the ones from just before, they were all based upon memory: the moves and form. And memory of their opponents.
So here, Denken's party need only overcome the level at which Frieren was fighting before, as its source is Denken's memory, and not Frieren's.
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u/CariolaMinze Feb 17 '24
Yeah, and the version he was fighting with, didn't want to kill people just because of a examination. Probably they will all pass out
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u/Rumnik24 Feb 17 '24
What makes you say that the Laufen copy was made from memory? Maybe I missed something.
For all we know the clones could be made at the moment a person steps on the dungeon, and not from memory. Maybe each group finds random clones, and in this case it just happens to be Frieren, Denken's latest foe.
But for the Ehre team they fight themselves.
I'll guess we'll get the answers in the next episode, i can't wait to see it!!
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u/chiku00 Feb 18 '24
I feel that it's a bit too OP to be able to clone a person entirely, like you suggested. So, from a storytelling perspective, it makes more sense for each team to face an enemy that they couldn't beat before. I expect Wirbel's team to face Fern and Land.
There's no point, from a storytelling perspective, in overcoming an opponent who couldn't be beat even when they used a fraction of their power when facing their shadows.
At least, that's my two-scents.
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u/Ros02 Feb 17 '24
Bro wtf Frieren gonna be batteling with then? Her full potential?
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u/chiku00 Feb 17 '24
Not sure if you have seen the latest episode, so I'll put it in spoilers:
Basically, the Frieren you are seeing in this clip has been conjured using the memories of its opponent, specifically Denken's. And since Denken has no idea about Frieren's full potential, his image of Frieren will also be limited. Basically, for the dungeon-master, there is no additional source of information, amongst the party in this clip, to augment Frieren's potential beyond what Denken has witnessed.
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u/Numbnut10 Feb 18 '24
Fern is gonna beat Frieren's clone by throwing a mimic chest in front of it, then wrapping the clone in a nice, toasty blanket. Instant KO.
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u/ApprehensivePay1735 Feb 17 '24
my guess is fern will save the day by rapid cast cheesing the clone.
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u/velost Feb 17 '24
The boss music did not start playing because they are about to have a nice conversation
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u/IceBlue Feb 17 '24
Frieren without anything holding her back wouldn’t even necessarily limit herself to just that spell.
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Feb 17 '24
Surprised that there's no manga spoilers here yet. Oh well, I'll just say that it'll be an interesting fight 🔥🔥
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u/Sentryion Feb 18 '24
Imo frieren is a little hard to spoil. Its mostly episodic and even when linked the spoiler would be meaningless for the people who haven't caught up.
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u/Murica_Chan Feb 18 '24
Its one of the best scenes next to the el dorado arc. So its best left savor by those peeps
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u/jazzjoking Feb 19 '24
good frieren has matured audience than usual mainstream anime with loose lips retarded fans
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u/Murica_Chan Feb 18 '24
As a manga reader
I'll say, just get your popcorns and soda ready. Its gonna be lit as fuck
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u/J0kerJ0nny Feb 18 '24
Anime-only here, maybe because it's a copy it's going to use all the spells frieren has to offer. Instead of only relying on Zoltrak, that at least would be epic
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u/Romanaire Feb 18 '24
Godsking mentality, just needs to summon Fern and we have the full PTSD experience.
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u/DraconesIqnis Feb 18 '24
Anime only here. Just a theory. Clone Frieren beats Denken's group to a bloody pulp and real Frieren then shows up and nearly effortlessly beats her clone, 1v1, while making a comment at the end about it being a cheap copy.
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u/Hamster_Eater87 Feb 18 '24
It's funny how much people are speculating, but it's pretty straightforward (if they don't change it from the manga)
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u/jcdc_jaaaaaa Feb 17 '24
Sense really did not plan this out. She was expecting her clone (I assume the strongest clone is always assigned to protect the door) to be the final boss.
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u/ErikaTheDeceasedGal Feb 18 '24
Is that the case? That's wild!
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u/jcdc_jaaaaaa Feb 18 '24
Just an assumption though that the strongest mage will be the final boss of the area. It's just that instead of Sense, it was Frieren.
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u/Express-Day5234 Feb 18 '24
Or maybe she was expecting Frieren to be cloned. She seemed pretty impressed by her barrier breaking and wants to follow her and Fern around.
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u/jcdc_jaaaaaa Feb 18 '24
Oh yeah there's that too. And given the fact that she said she wants to go with them since it feels like it will be the safest option.
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u/Fedorchik Feb 18 '24
I hate how Vordt's theme is used here.
So many 'souls OST' music that would work just fine or even very good, but you use Vordt's theme that doesn't fit here at all just because it's a stupid meme
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u/ciutomorrow Feb 19 '24
You said it urself, it's just a stupid meme dude why would I use other ost that people doesn't recognize 😭. Vordt's theme is the crucial part of the meme.
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u/not_Shiza Feb 17 '24
PUT A SPOILER TAG ON IT YOU GUMBO
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u/ciutomorrow Feb 17 '24
The rules said I need to wait for 24 hours only for anime contents didn't it? But sure I'll add it.
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u/TheBleakForest Feb 17 '24
This is not discussing anything past the anime and it's been more then 24 hours since the episode it came from was released.
There is no need to tag this as spoilers.
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u/Nearby-Eye-2509 Feb 18 '24
I don't think they really need to defeat the clones when u can just destroy whatever is making them in the first place and probably that would destroy the clones too. I bet frieren and fern would find whatever that is since they are trying to explore 100% of the dungeon.
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u/Mambesala_Guey Feb 18 '24
They should’ve had her health bar go off screen like Ganons in Tears of the Kingdom
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u/Suspected_Magic_User Feb 18 '24
I bet she's so powerful that those petty golems won't be able to save them anyway.
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u/Palanki96 Feb 18 '24
Wanted to make a meme about this with a boss bar but couldn't figure out a proper name for her, 'Legendary Mage Frieren' just sounded like a miniboss
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